Interview with Nat Livingston Johnson and Gregory Mitnick, Filmmakers of The Kook
Screenwriting for Hollywood gets down to the nitty gritty, from script to screen, with exciting writing-directing team Nat Livingston Johnson and Gregory Mitnick, filmmaking auteurs of the original new film short The Kook showing at the 2011 Austin Film Festival.
Gregory and Nathaniel met at the NYU film school grad program. Working on projects together, the creative chemistry was immediate between them and the duo continued to work together after school ended.
One of their larger endeavors, The Kook is an instant hit in the film festival circuit. The Kook had its North American premiere at CFC Worldwide Short Film Festival in Toronto, and is now slated to play at a handful of festivals in the coming months including Calgary International, New Orleans, FirstGlance Philadelphia, and Austin. The Kook won the Audience Award at First Run Festival.
Shot on an ARRI 535B, 3-perf, Super35mm with some nice old Cooke lenses, The Kook is s stunner.
THE SCRIPT
Jaden: Tell me how the script The Kook came to be.
Nathaniel: We had been talking about doing something related to Heaven’s Gate [a real cult group, deceased] for years, actually. The story emerged in the months leading up to the actual writing. It took us several months to write the script. We would meet in odd places around the city to write, like the sub-basement of a library, or the Staten Island Ferry – changing the context was always inspiring. I hate writing at a desk!
NEW YORKING
Jaden: Why are New Yorkers so darn good at whatever they do? Where do they get their special drive and flavor? What is it that gives New Yorkers the edgy daring look to their art?
Gregory: I’m not sure that’s totally true. There’s just a lot more of everything here.
Nathaniel: People in New York are really driven – being overworked is impressive here.
CREEPER LOVE
Jaden: Watching your music videos and this short film The Kook, my feelings range from, “Wow, this is totally creepy,” to “This is amazing, I love it.” Are creepy and amazing acceptable feelings for me to have for you? Is that what you are going for? Or did that just sort of happen?
Nathaniel: You betcha!
Gregory: Not really.
Jaden: There is a darkness, weird, but funny, profound, it’s all over the map but totally comprehensible and sensible.
Nathaniel: I think that’s pretty accurate, ha!
Gregory: I think that if people met us, they might feel the same way. We have our creepy moments, but mostly we want to make people laugh and see things our way.
THE TEAM
Jaden: Who of you two specializes in what filmmaking aspects? What are your different strengths that you each bring to your projects? Does one of you more often have the final say?
Nathaniel: 50-50.
Jaden: Truly 50-50? Or is one of you more dominant?
Nathaniel: When we work together, we definitely have different focuses of attention, but we’ve worked together now long enough that this process is pretty seamless. We know who’s good at what thing, often down to very minor details, and we can work like this without a lot of discussion.
Gregory: There really isn’t a final say – we rarely disagree for more than a few seconds.
Jaden: Please explain who focuses on what aspects more? I know there is a lot of work that goes into what you do, and naturally, one person may take the reigns.
Nathaniel: Well, obviously we both have strong opinions that conflict with each other, but we really like the process of push and pull, and we trust each others tastes so that disagreeing can be the most fertile and creative part of the process.
FORTUNE
Jaden: How have your productions gone with technical issues? Smooth or riddled with problems? Lucky or unlucky?
Gregory: For productions – the smoothness of things is equal to our excitement in the moment. In that sense, we’ve been lucky. Also, because we’re usually, hopefully, surrounded by a group of friends who bring their technical expertise in any given area, things typically go well.
CASTING
Jaden: When casting, did you want the same people for The Kook? Or were there some tough final actor choices?
Nathaniel: Casting is actually one of the areas that we disagree upon the most often.
Jaden: The final choices for casting of The Kook were exceptionally brilliant, I must tell you.
Nathaniel: Thank you.
Jaden: The 3 main leads, dad (Dan Burkarth), daughter (Aerial East), and female cult member Fa (T Sahara Meer) were all so unique, believable, engaging, and enthralling…
Gregory: That’s great to hear!
Nathaniel: We actually were down to the wire with casting for the lead, Fa.
Jaden: She is brilliant. I was so blown away with her transformation and really bizarre characterization.
To see her headshot, she is so pretty, and yet she looked like such a freak in the short.
Nathaniel: We had a a couple actresses who were considering, one of them was probably insane, in hindsight… this is before we auditioned T Sahara Meer.
Jaden: She’s fantastic! She is the final key that just makes the short pop.
Nathaniel: She really prepared well for the audition – and she nailed it, really the only actress who really nailed it. It was quite obvious that she knew the part, the sense of humor, and she got it from the beginning.
Jaden: You can see her struggle with not wanting to do bad things, but having to, to save her naive friends.
Gregory: Totally.
Nathaniel: Yeah, for Fa we had sort of this “unlikely hero” mold in mind – we love Frances McDormand’s character in Fargo, we referred to this with a mix of the dotty woman from Airplane –
Gregory: Julie Hagerty.
Nathaniel: For the daughter character, we wanted someone with less experience, someone who would bring a sort of naive naturalism to the role.
Jaden: The daughter was so real, more real than any teen type character I have ever seen, not glossy, not perfect, just normal, fun, confused, scared, and well played.
Nathaniel: We cast a lot of the cult members from the regional theater in the Catskills, some great faces.
Learn more about the stellar cast and crew here: http://thekookmovie.com/cast/
WEAKLINGS
Jaden: The pool scene in The Kook, did The Shining influence it? It was like a mirrored reversal of the stair-bat scene of the Kubrick-King movie where the wife is, figuratively speaking, pushed into a corner and forced to act. Well staged.
Nathaniel: There’s a Shining influence in everything! That film is in my bones. In fact, Shelly Duvall was one of the other major character references for Fa.
Gregory: And we knew we wanted our bad guy to end up all wet.
Jaden: Having characters make a real transformation by necessity is a difficult writing feat, and you succeed in only 15 minutes! I feel like we never anymore see that type of character who comes off so weak at first, but actually becomes the strongest sanest hero in the end. I like it.
Nathaniel: I just love the weak/strong female hero characters – there’s something so expressive about that journey. Rosemary’s Baby is also one of my all-time favorite films.
Jaden: I am too scared to watch Rosemary’s Baby, might make me never want to be pregnant.
Nathaniel: Yeah, me neither.
Jaden: (laughs)
SET PRODUCTION
Jaden: I love the “stay out” signs on the daughter’s room, the kind of stuff we all did, but forget as we get older, nice touch and focus on details.
Gregory: The actress, Aerial East, actually drew those pictures herself, and many of the other paintings and art throughout the film. Our production designer, Alex Reeves, has the best taste ever. He put the lock on the outside of Rittie’s bedroom door, hand crafted the Satellite dishes, dyed the cult’s sweatsuits that sea-foam yellow, whipped up street signs – like one for “Jensen’s Bog” which didn’t make the cut.
Jaden: The locks on the door are an extremely interesting choice because it says that the daddy locked his daughter in her room frequently, which is weird. Is that in the script?
Gregory: Right… no, not originally. It sort of came about when we blocked the action on set, it was a real boon.
Nathaniel: Greg and I set out to do primarily two things – make a film about confronting a lie in a hard way, and two, to make it really fun.
LAST MINUTE CHANGES
Jaden: What other sorts of things were not in the script but made movie magick?
Gregory: Well, we worked for a long time on how a layperson might come across a free gun.
Nathaniel: That scene really changed late in the game!
Jaden: The gun was a great twist of fate.
Nathaniel: We originally had that scene scripted for a strip club, this dingy little strange spot in The Catskills called “Da Shark Lounge”.
Jaden: I am so glad you did not go with the strip club! Strippers are in every script… drives me crazy. Strippers and assassins. The route you took was much more original, unique, and could happen in real life.
ABSURDITY
Jaden: Although The Kook is absurd, it is totally believable, which for me, is requisite to enjoying a movie, some level of truth and believability, which you achieve, despite the silliness of the movie and the sadness of the reality.
Nathaniel: That’s a high compliment! And that’s what we’ve always admired in Coen Brothers and Polanski films, that balance between absurdity, humor, and believability.
IMAGERY
Jaden: It took forever to download The Kook on my computer, so I watched it frame by frame, 10 seconds at a time, which allowed me to examine every single setup. Each frame could have been a gallery photograph still. It was gorgeous. Do you have background in photography or painting? From where do your rich aesthetics and comprehension of framing and color come?
Gregory: I think at the time, we were thinking a lot about the comic books – the rich, colorful layouts, like in Tin-tin and others. We love the overall green of the Catskills (where we shot it ) and the adding of bold colors there makes it pop.
Nathaniel: We gave a lot of thought to color – I remember deciding on the sweatsuits, we wanted to choose a color that would stand out in the night – our film takes place mostly after dark – and also to compliment the green in the forest scenes. Yellow also has a gentle, innocent quality that we wanted the cult members to have. Yellow also adds a little humor.
Gregory: Yellow is also the color people see during seizures, and painter Van Gogh loved it. Yellow walks the line between happy and crazy.
Nathaniel: Yeah.
COSTUME
Jaden: Okay, HAIRDOS?! Too funny. Where did that come from?
Nathaniel: That was so fun, buying the wigs. Greg and I made sure we got to do that.
Gregory: Wigs are big business! Who knew!? We went wig hunting three of four times with Emi, our makeup artist, and it was a real tough decision. They’re very expensive and you can’t return them…grrr.
Jaden: Like underwear, you don’t know what’s going to come back in them. That hairstyle was super popular for hipsters in 2009 in San Francisco, and I thought it was so ugly, but you guys took it to a whole new level of unattractiveness. Was it popular in NYC then too, the bowl cut?
Gregory: Really? That’s funny – no it most definitely was not popular here.
Jaden: It was the ‘in’ thing for a minute here.
Gregory: It was the thing when I was four… a pragmatic thing for my mom and dad.
Jaden: Yeah Yeah Yeah’s singer had the bowl cut, didn’t she?
Nathaniel: She did, Karen O. Really, the bowl cut was just a way to unify the cult members visually. Snejina Latev, our art director who designed a lot of the costumes and the overall look of the film, wanted their haircuts to match the shape of alien leader Do’s head.
Jaden: Clever.
Nathaniel: As if they’re hairdos were some sort of homage to their alien god.
Gregory: Right.
BUDGET
Jaden: How much did it cost in time, money, and favors to make The Kook?
Gregory: We shot the film in five days.
Nathaniel: Greg and I hung around for some pick-ups… but yeah, we had long nights!
Gregory: There were a bunch of local favors. Our producer finagled here and there, the fire department lent us a rickety cherry picker, the self-declared “mayor” lent us Malcolm’s bungalow, the blue van was for sale and we borrowed it, hmmm.
Nathaniel: We won a Kodak Vision Award for a spec commercial, so the kodak film was free and for the camera we got a great deal.
Gregory: Not totally free – but heavily discounted.
Nathaniel: I think if this were a commercial film without any favors, grants, or loans, it would have cost upwards of $70,000. We put a lot of our own money into it, though, probably about $20,000 out of pocket. We saved a lot of money for this and put some away for post production.
Jaden: I think it will pay off plenty! You guys will be millionaires by 2013, I predict. If not, come back and I will give you $5 each.
Nathaniel: Ha, I’l hold you to that!!
Jaden: For sure. I know talent when I see it. You guys got it!
Gregory: That’d be great! I’m hoping Powerball comes through sooner though.
Jaden: F the Powerball… Your work and vision will pay off way bigger.
Gregory: Yeah, f it!
Nathaniel: Yeah, well there would be nothing better than to make films like this and get paid to do it… I mean, are you kidding me??
HATERS
Jaden: Considering the exceptional quality of your work, I was shocked to find these ignorant, rude, yet kinda funny comments underneath one of your 4-minute shorts, they read: “lick my vagina,” and “this video fucking blows,” and “a commercial for white settlers.” When the idiots of the world conspire to go a-bashing, how do you deal with it and react to their negative feedback?
Nathaniel: I love that stuff!
Gregory: We laugh with them.
Jaden: Good. I like your attitude. I was worried. If you can see the humor in things, it sure makes life a lot easier. If only the haters could laugh and see the light too.
Nathaniel: YouTube comments are a hoot.
Gregory: Really, we get frustrated mostly at a lack of reaction.
I’M SHAKING
Jaden: I love your Shaking video so much. I watch it over and over. Hypnotizing! Anything to say about that?
Nathaniel: We shot it in a deli basement on 8mm.
Jaden: It is so sexy and awkward and funny and just overall rad. Who plays the guy and girl?
Nathaniel: Michael Leviton, the singer, plays the guy; he is a friend of ours, and we tried to channel some of his own energy into that character – he really wasn’t up for it at first.
Gregory: The girl had a terrible flu that evening, but still managed to drive us wild.
Jaden: I love the funny finger motions, they crack me up.
Nathaniel: The singer Michael actually came up with the concept for the video – he’s a wonderful writer in his own right.
Watch The New Jerk Times, “I’m Shaking” video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgCAxR05PVQ
FUTURE PLANS
Jaden: Any interest in TV?
Nathaniel: Not really into writing TV shows, our motivation is really filmmaking.
Gregory: We have a lot of projects we’re developing.
Jaden: Any interest in expanding The Kook into a full feature or just move on to the next project?
Gregory: That is something we’re considering.
Nathaniel: We’ve toyed with the idea – it’s certainly a viable option, although we are too restless and I think we’re ready for something new.
Gregory: Right. We’re thinking of a feature narrative and feature documentary, perhaps the doc first.
Nathaniel: We have a handful of projects in mind and we’re going to come to Austin guns blazing!
INFLUENCES
Jaden: I’d say only one or two filmmakers truly move and impress me each year, from old pros to new kids on the block, and this year, you are it, Greg and Nat. Your film work excites me and makes me feel like I have to strive harder in my own creative endeavors.
Nathaniel: Thanks for the kind words.
Jaden: What and who are your influences? The people and films or things that were your biggest inspirations? The people that make you aim higher?
Gregory: Dardenne brothers, Coen brothers, Charlie Kaufman, Frederick Wiseman… for film.
Nathaniel: For me, the greats are Hitchock, Wilder, Verhoeven, Coen brothers… Two of my biggest heroes are Stan Brakhage and Herzog. Stan Brakhage is a huge influence of mine – he’s often considered a fine artist, but I think a lot of his philosophies can be applied to narrative filmmaking. Lou Reed is a hero of mine. Arthur Russell, Michael Hurley, Roger Miller – I really like the storytellers. We have a lot of friends that are artists who we collaborate with on a regular basis.
ADVICE FOR SCREENWRITERS
Jaden: Any favorite screenwriting books or guides? Professors or people that others can look to for help?
Nathaniel: I think reading a lot of stories and scripts is the best way to learn – although I did find McKee’s “Story” clarified a lot of things for me.
Gregory: I always enjoy reading short stories and the news. I like the way people communicate quickly.
Nathaniel: I think you can learn an awful lot about structure from reading short stories.
Jaden: Wise advice. I agree.
Jaden: Thank you Greg and Nat for taking so much time for this interview. I appreciate it. I am so excited to watch your career bloom! If you are not millionaires by 2013, you know where to collect your $5!
Gregory: Thank you so much! This was fun!
Nathaniel: Ha! It’s been a blast! Thanks for such a thoughtful interview!
Watch The Kook movie trailer: http://thekookmovie.com/trailer/
Learn more: superpeking.com and thekookmovie.com
Where can you watch The Kook screening: http://thekookmovie.com/screenings/
Speak of the Dead Interview Series, Screenwriters from Shriekfest: Melanie Light
Participating writers and filmmakers from Shriekfest past and present talk to Screenwriting for Hollywood about their horror thriller suspense movies and experience.
Writer/Director Melanie Light offers a reversal to the classic horror movie scene, displaying vengeful commanding women and aesthetically poetic fertile set productions.
ESCAPE
Writer/Director/Production Designer
Melanie Light Speaks to SfH
The movie:
Escape is a rape revenge thriller. A woman drives home to see her son from Long beach, stops off in a Saloon in the desert, and meets a dark handsome man. They hit it off, but then the night takes a terrible turn. The man turns out to be a psycho serial rapist.
Inspiration:
Escape was inspired by a short story a friend of mine had written a while ago. I kinda changed the hell out of it in the end, but that’s where the idea came from.
Budget:
Pre-production and Principle photography cost about $3,000, and I’m sure to spend more in Post!
I had just finished Stand-by Art Directing on a feature film called Cockneys vs Zombies and used every penny I got paid from that movie to make my own. I also had a little help from a sound recordist’s friend named Ashok Kumar-Kumar.
The Journey:
A musician friend of mine for whom I made a music video had sent me a story last summer and was like, “You should make this into a short film.” I thought about it and then thought, “Hell yeah.” I knew a location in Nevada which could accommodate us.
I wrote the script (and then re-wrote it after a few talks with trusted friends and filmmakers) while working long hours on someone else’s film. I even re-wrote parts a few days before the shoot. It took a while to nail down the script.
I found my actress Julia Sandberg Hansson through UK Director Adam Mason; she was amazing and had to endure so much in our crazy shoot. My actor was equally as good and more on the lighter comedic side, Darri Ingolfsson.
Right now Escape has just been shot and is in first rough assembly, with a rough to show to Channel 4′s Frightfest; Switch, my last film, made it there last year. I will see what festivals suit my film and submit it to them. I will also see if the Birds Eye View in London are interested as they loved my last short too.
Background:
I had a Make A Horror Movie Kit as a kid and used to try and make things with the home video camera. My parents had a camera and my mother used to make animations at Christmas time. It wasn’t until I was at Art College, around 16, that I wanted to try and make arty weird videos. I had no knowledge of editing and thus works never got finished. I’m like the opposite now.
My final year of Fine Art studies, I was all about horror issues and horror movies. After a few years of being confused and thinking art was going to save me, I found a website that led to the opportunity to have a low budget film experience in the art department. I worked on Adam Mason’s The Devils Chair and from then, I was hooked!
It’s only since 2009 I have started directing low budget music videos and my own shorts.
To see more of Melanie Light’s film credits and history, go to IMDB.COM.
Influences:
I like so many horror films from different sub-genres…Plan 9 from Outer Space, House of 1000 Corpses, Texas Chainsaw Massacre , The Ring, Frankenstein ( Universal Original ), Countess Dracula… it goes on….
I am really into Rob Zombie, he’s like a dream husband!! haha The guy is such an inspiration, directing his own music videos, being in a super amazing band and then directing his features films. House 1000 and The Devils Rejects are so awesome. The second Halloween re-make was a bit iffy but I shall let that slide. He’s like a one man band.
For more truly titillating videos and info, visit Melanie Light’s cool website at:
http://www.misartressmelanie.com/
Shriekfest: Calling All Independent Horror Thriller Sci-Fi Fantasy Filmmakers & Screenwriters !
Speak of the Dead Interview Series, Screenwriters from Shriekfest: James Howarth
Participating writers and filmmakers from Shriekfest past and present talk to Screenwriting for Hollywood about their horror thriller suspense movies and experience.
INHABITANT
Writer/Director/Actor
James Howarth Speaks to SfH
The movie:
Inhabitant has been described as a combination of films like Trainspotting, Memento, Requiem for a Dream, and Donny Darko. It is an edgy thriller that blurs the line between the psychological and the supernatural.
Mark is running from a past plagued by disturbing schizophrenic episodes. Three women each hold a different key to his freedom. A dark and mysterious being threatens his entire reality and is worse than all the people in it.
Mark mistakenly imagines that his release from a mental hospital represents a fresh start. He soon discovers, instead, that his struggles with schizophrenia are about to get much, much worse.
As his mind spirals out of control, Mark suspects his sexy roommate and his best friend of conspiring to have him re-committed. Mark insists that his condition is the result of an implant that puts him in communication with a sinister extraterrestrial race.
The one person who can save him from losing the battle against his mental illness is Abby, a beautiful psychologist with a few demons of her own. When Mark’s mysterious tormentor offers him a murderous solution to all his problems, can Abby stop him from succumbing to what may only be a terrifying figment of his imagination before it’s too late?
Inspiration:
The idea of alternate realism inspires me, learning about life through movies, and wanting to improve upon that.
Budget:
I spent about $3,000, plus my time. I was the lead actor, director, editor, and most of the rest.
I used a credit card to pay. Still paying it off!
The Journey:
I wrote the script but had a lot of help from various writers to structure it. I don’t want to write again! lol
After learning how important the script is, I put a lot of time and care into it, perhaps even up to 3 years pondering it, then a few years to write it.
I brought together a talented cast and crew from Los Angeles and Australia.
It has gone well so far.
Already after just a few weeks, the film has been accepted into the 2011 Interrobang Film Festival and the Urban Suburban Film Festival. I just won an Honorable Mention Los Angles Movie Awards.
Being my debut feature film it has been a huge learning experience as festivals and marketing are the last thing on your mind. Just finishing it is a huge undertaking. Now I realize that the bulk of the budget has to be when the movie is finished.
Usually, if you want to get into the big film festivals, you have to have a lot of money and a big name actor.
I believe the business is changing due to the Internet and the current economic climate. Something that strikes a note with audiences can do just as well as a big costly picture, if given the chance.
Background:
I have always enjoyed acting and costumes since I was a child. I began in amateur theatre, then did small professional gigs and roles in my 20s. I took up filmmaking and film school in 2000.
Influences:
Naked Lunch is my favorite horror thriller film of all time. David Cronenburg is my favorite horror filmmaker.
Shriekfest: Calling All Independent Horror Thriller Sci-Fi Fantasy Filmmakers & Screenwriters !
